What the Heck is Neuroarchitecture? With Jessica Shaw

My guest today is Jessica Shaw, The Director of Interiors for the Turrett Collaborative. The firm typically works on high-end architecture and interior projects, but what Jessica has to share, and what she believes, is that creating a space that gives something back to you, in a positive way, can happen on any budget. And that’s because she implements what we’ve learned from neuroscience into how she creates built environments. And those touchpoints haven’t much to do with money. Today, Jessica introduces us to the concepts behind neuroarchitecture. The full episode show notes are available here, where you can see the amazing beautiful works of Jessica and her team. 

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Transcript

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Hello, this is the Style Matters podcast brought to you by Little Yellow Couch. I'm Zandra, your host, creator of the Slow Style approach to uncovering and implementing your signature style, one that represents who you are and actively helps you become who you want to be. This show isn't about hacking the latest trends or coming up with design rules you aren't allowed to break. Instead, my aim is to talk with the most thoughtful designers about their process of creating beauty, how they make their choices, and what makes a room really work, and about the substantive reasons about why developing one style or aesthetic really matters. If you're ready to make your home a meaningful place to be, you are in the right place. I'm so glad you're here. My guest today is the director of interiors for the Turret Collaborative, Jessica Shaw. The firm typically works on high-end architecture and interiors projects, but what Jessica has to share and what she believes is that creating a space that gives something back to you in a positive way can happen on any budget, and that's because she implements what we've learned from neuroscience into how she creates built environments, and those touch points haven't much to do with money. Today Jessica introduces us to the concepts behind neuroarchitecture. Jessica Shaw, welcome to the Style Matters podcast. So exciting to be here. Thank you so much. Oh, good. Yes, absolutely. I want to talk a little bit about your background before we get into some nitty gritty things that we've touched on before on this show, but I think you're going to take us deeper than we've ever gone before. I feel like that's like an ad for, I don't know, Star Wars or something, deeper than we've ever gone before. Deep space. Are you ready? Yes. But let's just start with you. When did you fall in love with design? How did you come into this career of yours? And currently you're now the director of interiors for the Turret Collaborative, so if you want to just give us a quick idea of what that's about as well. Absolutely. Yeah. So yes, Turret Collaborative, architecture and inter-design here in New York City. And Wayne Turret, who's the principal architect and I have had a relationship that spans more than two decades at this point in time. So it's a very beautiful kind of dovetailing of our two disciplines. Our practice, we work independently, we do straight up interior design projects, but a lot of times we are collaborating together and it's a very fluid way to work with clients. We deal with a lot of high-end residential. We've done commercial hospitality work. We dabble. But it's a very long-standing relationship that I have with Wayne Turret and it's really great. You build on experience and with them together. Yes. It's so nice to have someone to collaborate with, right? To not just be in your own bubble. Absolutely. Yeah. So how about you personally, when did you fall into this world of design? You know, Sandra, it's almost been an always thing. I think that's a real blessing, right? I mean, I grew up in a very artistic household. I feel like being exposed to the arts with something that as a child, my parents really advocated and nurtured within my childhood experience. So my first love was really theatrical design, stage and set design, just going to performances and just the magic of transformational space, right? Yeah. And then there's this theater that is a thing, just the blank stage and then the curtain comes up and then these worlds unfold and sometimes transform and transfigure before your very eyes really, I think, affected me. You know, all of it, all of this, whether architecture, fashion, music, photography, like all of these things really do find a place, I think, in the expression of interior design. So I feel really fortunate that I am still doing a thing that I can find interesting and enjoyable. Yes. You know, the business side and getting through it, we all, especially through COVID and these things, we've all had to endure in our creative professional trades. There's certain challenges and hardships. But the work is always evolving and always different. So I feel really fortunate that I found something that I enjoy at a very young age. I really truly... And you still do. I mean, to the point that I think, you know, at that young age in high school, when they sit you down with your counselor... Do you remember that? Yes. Where do you want to go? What do you want to do? And it was a very academically driven school and why are you not going to... No, I want to go to interior design school. I figured it out. Great. Oh, well, that is great. And you are lucky and I'm happy for you. You mentioned COVID just now and, you know, how much that changed our lives and how much more time everyone was spending at home. And I think we were already culturally talking about wellness and self-care and all that kind of stuff. And it was bleeding into the home. And then when COVID had it just absolutely blew up and magnified, you've been focused on it for much longer than that. And I'm wondering. So how much of this interest in wellness and thinking about wellness in terms of our homes and how we create them is coming from your clients? Are they really getting it? Or are you sort of making that connection for them? And how has that kind of evolved over the past, let's say, 10 years? Yeah. Great questions and great topic. And I honestly think that I am probably drawing it out of my clients more than they are asking for it. Okay. So I think that's what seeps through, you know, certain questions you go through this whole kind of discovery, get to know your client, what are they looking to do. And so, yes, it will come up. But to the extent that they really need to consider wellness, it probably has not really been the thing guiding their decision to jump into a project. But you see the importance of it. So how do you guide them there? Yeah. Well, you know, it's relationships that I think a lot of beginning a project is about establishing a relationship and understanding your client's needs. And so through these conversations, that's where you, you know, you start to establish are these really practical things you're looking to handle? But most of the time, because once you scratch past the surface, you are talking about a person's home. And so ultimately, you do have to get a little bit deeper and a little more personal about things like how do you function? What is it that's missing? What do you need? Right. And then that's where we start to plant the seeds about how can we really make this a sanctuary? Yeah. You know, such a common word. Yeah. Now, right. When you talk about residential work, I feel like there has been a common thread, though pre-COVID and with a lot of the residential, the work that we do, at least I think maybe how we drive things. It is about creating obviously comfort, but certainly a sense of sanctuary. You know, we're here in New York City, so often it's just like I want to be able to close my doors and feel grounded and peaceful, right? But there was certainly a shift during COVID because people were repurposing rooms, you know, those spare guest rooms were becoming home offices and a lot of shifting going on. So this became a much more common conversation. Right. And there's a feedback loop there between our environment and our well-being. And you have introduced me to a term that I wasn't familiar with. I think I have a general idea of called neuroarchitecture. Yes. And I would love for you to talk about that. Yeah, neuroarchitecture is quite an interesting, titillating words, aren't they? Neuroarchitecture. Sounds very fancy. Yeah, very fancy. And it's vast. It is a vast study that essentially it's involving scientific data about the human response to the physical environment, right? Like, this is really what we're talking about. And in terms of design and interior space, you know, it's a discipline that really it's seeking to explore the relationship between neuroscience and architecture and design and buildings. The built environment. The built environment. You know, manmade structures that make up this kind of artificially created environment that we call our homes, right? And what it's like to be human beings living within them. It's pretty wild. Yeah, definitely. And you know, it's a real thing. This is a theory that a field, I should say, that dates back to the 70s, really. Physical psychology, it was called then. And it's just, you know, drawn from evidence-based, the concept of evidence-based design work, which was something we didn't really get into until the 80s. And a lot of that, I think, was being drawn from the corporate world, which is a place that I dabbled in that time. Yeah, yeah. You know. We went into cubicles and we went out of cubicles and then we did, yeah, because we were trying to understand productivity and how we can get the most out of our employees both creatively, but also in terms of output. Yeah. Right, right. So we saw these big office systems furniture companies really having a dominance, right? And a lot of studies and a lot of data. And so I think it kind of started there, but it's grown and it continues to grow. And there's, in fact, there is a true affiliated, there's an academy of neuroscience. For architecture that was formed in San Diego in 2003. So it's a real thing. Yeah. And so what are some key things in your mind that we've learned since, let's say, the 80s about our homes and our environments and what they are doing to us or what we're doing to them? Sure. So the key things that we've realized are the impact of, I'll go kind of through some of the categories. Sure. The impact of lighting. Okay. Right. The impact of certain shapes within a space and movement, the movements that these shapes elicit physically, how we maneuver ourselves through spaces. But then there's like the macro and the micro. It's right down to the curve of an arm on a chair, what that feels like. These tactile moments have an effect. Color, of course. Color theory being applied to space. I mean, listen, I'm not bringing up topics that have not been discussed before, but I think they're just being looked at in a different way now and more deeply considered. The whole practice of feng shui to me is almost like an ancient understanding of what we're now in a modern way, a more data-driven, calling new architecture. If you're someone who wants to get into that, I do believe, I mean, energy is a real thing. However you wanted to find that and what you're comfortable with in terms of putting a label to that. Sure. But neural architecture is a lot about that, this feeling of energy that exists within a space and how it is affecting you. I mean, I just don't know why this pops in my head, but when you said energy is a real thing, I mean, walk into a room where someone is, you've interrupted a fight, an argument. You can feel the crackle in the air. You may not have overheard a single thing that was said, but there's some energy in that room. And so of course that applies to beautiful energy as well and positive energy. It doesn't always happen. But I mean, if anyone doubts whether or not energy is real, just imagine that and you go, oh yeah, I guess energy is real. I love that. That's a great analogy and a great jumping off point to just speak about. Imagine the energy of a rock versus wood. Imagine the energy of a plant and water. Imagine the energy of warm light versus cool light, like the sense of smell. We're all finely tuned into these things now too. We're getting there. Yeah, you said that you're not the first person to talk about this or whatever, but I think that it's still trickling down into where homeowners live and with their understanding of their space. There's been a lot of thinking about it in the design world, certainly at your level and also like you said, certainly in the corporate world, but I just think we're just now starting to understand this stuff. So it still feels new and it still sounds new and it's still really, really helpful for us to talk about it. And you mentioned color and shapes and all of that. So talk a little bit more, maybe give us a couple of examples about how shape or color, reality, how that plays into our well-being. Sure. Well, I mean, color therapy and color theory are things that I think most people and homeowners have probably heard these discussions before and Joseph Albers certainly spent a big part of his life having us see experimentally how color vibrates together. I do this with that and so to play with those palettes as a designer for a client is really, I'm sure, a joy for every design. And there is a great deal of comfort that can be created by creating a very calm palette. That doesn't mean that infusing bits of color is a negative thing because it can inspire and elicit good feelings as well. So the use of color is something that I find is very personal. I don't really have to confess. I don't ascribe to any hard and fast rules about it because it's a very personal thing. And we talk about energy and energetically each being is kind of built and wired a different way. So what turns on one person may not turn on another. And I literally mean that by what they're feeling. So one example of a recent project was a client who came to me and she said, listen, Jess, I really think that this is going to work well from my feeling. But I'm looking at your work and everything's very Zen, very calm. I am a dynamic person. Can you handle that? And as a designer, I've just been waiting for you to come to my life. Yes, we can do that, but let's go. Come on. And so it was very exciting. And it's interesting, kind of open the door. Just for me, I'm doing a lot of color, color, color with everybody now. But it was truly representation of this personality that just was there everywhere. That would not work for X, Y, and Z clients that I worked with before that, who was equally excited and satisfied with their process, but really was looking for something much more calm and Zen. Sure, yes. Yeah. Before we continue with the conversation, I want to introduce you to my slow style approach to creating a home you love. Slow style is a step by step framework that puts you at the front and center of your home rather than products, trends, and other people's ideas of what beauty looks like. To get started, I've created a new worksheet called dream home action plan. And it's all about adjusting your mindset about what you really want from your home and what you want to experience inside it. Because I believe everyone deserves to live inside beauty right now, not someday when you can afford all the bells and whistles that you see on lifestyles of the rich and famous. I'm dating myself. Does anyone remember that show? Anyway, this worksheet is the first step to reframing what you want to get out of life and how your home can help you achieve that. It's free and it's available on our website, littleyellowcouch.com. Just click on the yellow button right at the top called free guide. And then I'll jump in your inbox and we can start a conversation about your dream home. Again, that's littleyellowcouch.com. Okay, let's get back to the episode. So there's specific elements that you've written about that we should pay attention to if we want to think about our well-being. And I'd like to dig into some of them and I want to start with green zones. What are they? What do you mean by green zones? Sure. Yeah. Green zones meaning biofilia, natural elements, bringing the nature into your home. If you can really do it with real life plants or an aquarium or a water feature on the use of the materials that you're choosing, whether they're fixed materials like your flooring or it's in furniture, but that's really what we're talking about there. Biofilia. And would it even like organic shapes? Like let's, yeah, that is included in there as well. So something that is, you know, I'm looking at like. Nature inspired. Yeah, nature inspired. Okay. Sorry. Yes. Yes. Naturally inspired, organic things. Yeah. So that's the nature of nature in your built environment. Yeah. And then there's illumination. And I don't know if you were hinting at that when you said we now understand the effect that different lights can have on us. Is that what is, or did you mean something else by illumination? No, no, illumination. Yes. Specifically about the world of lighting. Wow. I mean, we lean into and collaborate with lighting designers always. Okay. And I think, you know, as an interior designer, yes, I have access and my knowledge is always building the world of lighting and lighting technology is constantly evolving. I cannot keep up with it. Okay. But, you know, we are certainly, I think everyone's comfortable now with the shift to LED. Yeah. That was a tough one for me. There was. There was a tough one for a lot of people. You know, getting away from that warm. But now, you know, now more people are understanding about color temperature, you know, like the consumer is learning about this language a little bit more than they probably did before almost because they have to. They're going out to the hardware store, replacing their bulbs. You got to know about lumens. You got to know. You got to know. You got to know. But they don't need to know or understand how to build and create environments through light. Right. Right. So it's a beautiful thing to be able to sculpt with light that way. Great. Zones and layers. Layers. Layers. And this is, you know, by the way, this is, this applies to both, you know, the, the rough and ready lower budget all the way to the high end. We're not saying that everything needs to be, you know, a particular lighting system and zones and all these wonderful things that you can do. You can still do this. Right. You can do it in your own home. And basically what I'm talking about is, you know, you have your overall, your ambient light and then you create textures and layers and zones with practical lighting, which can be a floor lamp, a desk lamp, plug in lamps. I mean, anything else, there's decorative lighting and then there's lighting that's kind of hidden. If you're doing coves or under counters, you know, there are all these different places and ways that one can insert light. And it's from a, from standpoint of neural architecture is hugely impactful. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, okay. So, by Ophelia, we talked about that or green zones. We talked about light and paying attention to that. And like you said, I mean, it can be as simple as changing out a light bulb or adding, you know, another source of light. It doesn't have to be about the lamps itself and how much they cost. No, it really doesn't. Right. And then what about this idea of movement and paying attention to movement in our homes? What do you mean by that? So critical. Okay. I think going back to the, you know, earlier, Conrad talked about energy. Yeah. Movement creates energy. And so these, the movement from your front door through, like, what is that journey? What is that experience for you? Do you have a moment to stop and decompress? Do you then enter and evolve and open up into what is the next space? What is, what is the story that's being told for you within your own home? Yes. You can create that. If you haven't thought about it before, then take the time to think, you know, in a very imaginative, ideal way, what would feel good to me? Is it simple as that? Like, what would really feel good? Am I, you know, do I feel, do I just walk right into my kitchen? Do I need a little space where I can just like put things down, leave the clutter there? Yeah. Enter into, you know? Yes. So we're talking about the overall flow through one's home. These kind of, if you just start to imagine the trail that you're creating and repeating these lines through your space, where are your major and minor kind of roots of movement? But then it's like, take a look at your furniture and how do you have to maneuver around those things? Yeah. Because that becomes a very tactile thing. So again, in neural architecture, literally like the neurons that are popping off in your brain because you bang into the edge of your bed every time you have to pass around the corner like, let's fix that. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. If there's a thing that I'm constantly hitting my hip on this dresser, it's like, well, let's just really think, is that where that dresser should be? Yeah. You know? And is that where shapes come into play? You had mentioned shapes and I would say, you know, rounded corners are going to be a little bit more forgiving if you have a lot of hard edges. So yeah, talk a little bit about shape and how that plays into it. Yeah. Yes. So as we kind of just hone in tighter and tighter, then the shapes and forms of all of our pieces of furniture that we interact with are really critical. So you know, but there's subtleties there that maybe through the help of a designer, a consumer will become, a client will become more aware of, let's just take, here's a great one, a sofa. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there are so many ways you can slice or dice the design of a sofa. Oh my gosh. I mean, yes. Yes. Right. Right. So, ergonomics and ergonomics is a big one and is kind of falls into this concept of shapes. Just how something fits our physical body, right, is just the world of ergonomics. So how ergonomically comfortable is the sofa? What is the purpose of the sofa? Usually in our homes, there are pieces of furniture that we want to be spending a great deal of time on. Right. So the depth, right, is the material, right? Then you step back, it's like, do you want it to have a platform base and look heavy and grounded? Right. Or do you like the sense of like airiness and shouldn't have legs? They're like, so many checklists with every piece of furniture to kind of go through the list and tick all these boxes. So when we work with clients, we like to have a very exploratory conversation about what is the scope of work we're doing for you. But then we follow up with a questionnaire because it's really something there's a lot to dig into. And it's a lot easier to just be like here in your time, go through this and it, bedside tables, materials, do you need a shelf? Right. Or do you need a drawer versus a drawer? Yeah. Right. So think about how many pieces of furniture one has in a home. You really should go do yourself the favor of taking the time to really think through what your preferences are. Right. And like you're saying, it's not necessarily a right or wrong answer. It's what do you want to feel if you, even if legs on a sofa are kind of in, if you need some grounding feeling in that room, don't do the legs on the sofa. Right. I mean, it's about making choices that are informed by how you want to feel. And then you as a designer understanding how the connection between the two. Yeah. Right. You know, and the way of approaching, I mean, I've used words already like storytelling and narrative. I mean, you really do, this is stuff as designers or any creative person, you really do begin with this always with your journey with any project. Like I love to be able to come up with one very simple and succinct defining sentence. Okay. And then if the choice doesn't answer the statement that is made and what are defining sentences about this place, here's an example. This is Hampton's home. Okay. We want it to feel like St. Bart's in a beautiful resort. Yeah. Done. Okay. Does that feel like St. Bart's or does that feel like Nantucket? That's definitely Nantucket. We're not going there. You want St. Bart's. Right. Right. Right. You know, I mean, it can be very nuanced, but it really then becomes like the defining raw stylistically, but then it's just there are so many decisions to be made. So you need to give yourself some parameters. Right. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. So I think first we talked about your own passion for this field of interior design and how it's been with you for as long as you can remember, we talked about sort of the feedback loops that we get from our built environment. So I wonder if you could kind of tie that up together for us and answer my signature question, which is why does style matter to you personally? Yeah. I mean, matters because we're human beings living in this world where we're trying to understand this is very existential. No, that's okay. Yeah. Go for it. You know, why are we here? What's the meaning of all these great questions? How do I fit into it? You know? And so style is a way that if you let yourself, it's almost a meditation. It can be like, what are the things that define me? If you give yourself the chance to ask these questions, then what comes back out is a true authentic reflection of who you are. You then style is a unique thing that comes from the passion in you. Beautifully said. Beautifully said. So it can be anything. I, you know, I really can't as long as, I mean, that's your style. We say that all the time. Oh, that's so her style. Yeah. Yeah. Her style. It's like, or just, you know, think about the expression like lifestyles because I feel like, you know, it's a very, I think it's really a privilege to be able to be let into the lives of the people that we work with. I really honor and respect that as an opportunity to, but I always said, you know, I'm really a vessel for what it is that you need. No two projects are ever going to look the same. Yeah. As I was saying about the one client that came to me going, feel like this could work, but can you really do the color? It's like, bring it like, let's go there. You know, I have to interpret what you're after, but it's a real collaboration, the process. And I really liked my clients to kind of almost feel like they did it when they're done because they had to go through, you know, like, they had to go through a process too. They had to go through meaning they had to go through a process too. Right. Right. And I was thinking about a speaking today and I'm looking around my own home and I couldn't help but think of Maria Kondo. So again, because, you know, this circling back to neuro architecture, I mean, she's made it a household expression about sparking joy. Right. Yes. That's really what this is all about. What sparks joy for you. And so that can go beyond organizing your closet to like really taking into account what defines you in an outwardly way. And that does not require a massive budget. This is not only for people who can do these palatious, wonderful homes. Right. You can do it if you're a student. Yes. Yes, if you're a student, I love it. Going to school on your student loans are still there, but you can find a way to make up a sanctuary out of your own space. You can understand what triggers you in your own space and correct those things. You know, those are warning signs. If something doesn't feel right, just try moving something around. Try getting a different light. Try getting better window treatments to like control your situation. Bring in some beautiful scent to just change up, you know, get yourself a great plant to put in the corner. Like just be there with life in your space, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. It's really a pleasure. Thanks so much for spending time with me today. If you've gotten something out of this episode, please be so kind as to leave a review on Apple Podcasts and see what you can do. I'm going to be back with another episode of the Show Notes.